Talk:T-80

Mind if I?

Edit the 125mm 2A46-2 gun, because this seems to be a NATO designation fo it. I've seen the T-80 variants page and also a link to a Russian Tank site stating that the gun's real name is different. These pages state that it is called the D-81TM "Rapira-3" smooth bore gun.

Can I also mention the how the rubber attached to the T-80 helps defend it from tandem-HEAT warheads? It is visible on the side-skirts and at the bottom portion of the front hull.

Soviet/Russian tank armor

This link also helps —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rapier-4 (talk • contribs) 12:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

And also I've read from websites stating that the few of the T-80's variants are comparable to western tanks, most notably the Soviet/Russian T-80U/UKs and Ukrainian T-84s. (maybe Is should state this in the T-80 models page) They are armed with up-to-date targeting systems and IR sights. Armor of these tanks are also fairly good, as they use K-5 ERA, which, in the Kontakt-5, states that "When fitted to T-72 tanks, the 'heavy' ERA made them immune to the depleted uranium penetrators of M829 APFSDS, fired by the 120 mm guns of the US M1 Abrams tanks, which were among the most formidable tank gun projectiles at the time". I have the full statement from a website of Jane's Defense Weekly. Websites also state that a lot of T-80BVs and T-80Bs were lost in the Chechen war because they lacked ERA and sufficient training.

T-80s also have a long firing range of 4,000 meters or 4km whilst western tanks have a range of 3,000 meters or 3km. They also fire HVAPFSDS rounds(the 3BM32)

And a few more information on it. As for the article guidelines, I've read them all and fully understand the terms for editing and creating articles. Rapier-4 (talk) 11:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

About the gun: I think both designations are "correct". For example the 115 mm tank gun used in the T-62 was known as both 115 mm U-5TS and 2A20.

You can add anything to Wkipedia as long it's about the subject of the article and you have the sources back up your claims.

Issues with the attack on Grozny are already listed in the article:

The reasons for that included the fact that the forces selected to capture Grozny were not prepared for such an operation while the city was defended by, among others, veterans of Soviet War in Afghanistan. The T-80 tanks used in this operation either did not have reactive armour (T-80B), or it was not fitted before the start of the operation (T-80BV).

The only issue which you mentioned and which isn't in the article is the part the lack of sufficient training.

Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 17:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Ammunition vulnerability.

Please stop removing the passages regarding ammunition vulnerability with edit comments of "reverting not sourced claim". They are referenced to Warford which is linked and avilable online to read, Armor Magazine is reputable. Here are the salient extracts:

"In the West, the development and adoption of semi-combustible ammunition has been accompanied by a supporting redesign of how tank main gun ammunition is stored aboard the tank. The result is the incorporation of an ammunition magazine separated from the tank crew by armored blast doors, and equipped with “blow-out panels” to direct the force of an ammunition explosion or fire away from the crew."

"Admitting that the ammunition carried by tanks like the T-80BV is potentially dangerous to the crews, the Russians also stated that the problem would be solved. This single shortcoming may in fact have already been solved..."

I have reinstated the passages again.

Hohum (talk) 20:53, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

(copied from User talk:Hohum)

"seem you're patronizing something which is really speculative... "maybe addressed in future variant" should have no space in an anti-POV encyclopedia, since this is a mere speculation from an author. I also hope you left there other tweaks I added instead of just reverting to your POV version. Ciao and good work. --Attilios (talk) 14:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)"

I think you confuse the meaning of POV on wikipedia. POV can be when wiki editors include their point of view in an article. The speculation I have included is not mine, it is from the source that I have provided, which is reputable, and is directly relevant to the article. I have endeavoured to maintain other edits that you have made. Hohum (talk) 19:07, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

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T-80U armoring

it is written in 1100 and 900 against the projectile against the heat, it's not very realistic. today there are 500 in the article for the original 1978 and 800 (http://artofwar.ru/w/wechkanow_i_w/vivboewyetanki-semejstwot-72t-80t-90wtoroeizdanie19122011.shtml) for 80U + kontakt5 '86, but 1100 is given without the version and year, and this much, is much too much. T90 in original Rossi is listed as 900 and 950 (1989), 800 + 800 and export (2005). but T80 1100 (1986) does not look real.

http://www.milrus.com/sv/t80/text.shtml this article http://www.milrus.com/about/index.shtml this site (about it) 89.105.158.243 (talk) 18:18, 13 November 2014 (UTC) http://dokwar.ru/publ/vooruzhenie/bronetekhnika/osnovnoj_boevoj_tank_t_80/13-1-0-366 this is a good and trustworthy source digit 89.105.158.243 (talk) 17:14, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Someone here claims that the protection of T-80U is KE 1000mm. This is not realistic at all. Although he cited his reference, I believe that it is not suitable to Wikipedia's standards.

http://www.amazon.com/T-80-Standard-Tank-Champion-Paperback/dp/B00JYHGSCY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418792857&sr=8-2&keywords=t-80+standard+tank

I believe that this is the most reliable source I can find for T-80U protection, written by Steven J. Zaloga in 2009. On page 24~25 says that the protection of T-80U with Kontakt-5 is KE 780mm CE 1320mm, which is far lower than his claim.115.88.156.13 (talk) 08:21, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

how do you say this source has seen this tank only in the form of photos on the internet, hahhaha. any source for RUtank better if it is the source of of RU89.105.158.243 (talk) 12:38, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

You didn't read the ref. Zaloga mentioned in his book that "Russian sources" claimed 780mm against APFSDS and 1,320mm against HEAT for the protection of T-80U.1.233.171.186 (talk) 03:15, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• Zaloga * also underestimated the level of protection for the T-72 and T-90, but the official government sources refuted it89.105.158.243 (talk) 12:38, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

maybe if China + expert say that it is M1A2sep Abrams = helicopter you believe +???89.105.158.243 (talk) 12:38, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

LOL. Zaloga is one of the most credible author in this field. Remember that he had full access to TACOM archieve.1.233.171.186 (talk) 03:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

by the way! The latest version of Leopard and Abrams also claim the armor for meter tower but not body — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.105.158.243 (talk) 13:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Because they really does. US already achieved 800mm KE 1300mm CE for the turret in 1988 with M1A1(HA), which used the 1st generation HAP. Although this estimate is from Zaloga's T-72 vs M1, this is matched with Soviet estimates in 1989. M1A2(SEP) and M1A1(AIM) are now using the 3rd generation HAP.1.233.171.186 (talk) 03:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

THe LOS thickness of later M1 series are estimated within 900-960mm. This is way thicker than the Soviet/Russian or other Eastern MBTs. Even Kontakt-5 provisdes only KE 140-200mm.115.88.156.22 (talk) 05:20, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

United Kingdom

Why note that "while evaluating the vehicle, the US and UK are alleged to have noted any weak spots and flaws of the T-80U"? It is precisely to note any weak spots and flaws that the vehicles were acquired. This is not an "allegation", it is the logical reason for the purchase.Royalcourtier (talk) 03:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Number built

Stating CFE numbers, the T-80s were present in more than 15,000 examples. The total production, in the early '2000s, was over 18,000 units. So the statement about 5,000 examples is totally false. Even the article says that T-80s only in Russian service were atleast 5,000, not to talk about the other countries, starting with Ukraine and so on. Check better your sources and revise this poorly made article, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.20.209.65 (talk) 00:00, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

CFE T-80's numbers

Here there are the CFE T-80 tanks declared.

Region---IV.1----IV.2---IV.3---IV.4---V.1

T-80: 112 93 81 0 19

T-80B: 3518--- 3015--2885---2885----503

T-80BV: 594----594---569-----569-----0

T-80BVK: 23-----23----22------22-----0

T-80U: 410----410-----3------0-----0

So the T-80's were more than 16,000 examples, not 5,000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.11.0.22 (talk) 17:19, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Redirects from Channel Tank

But no reference to the nickname of the tank in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:3913:1700:587B:43E8:685D:C8C0 (talk)

@Ceannlann gorm: created The Channel Tank redirect, so can probably answer your question. - BilCat (talk) 08:28, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Syrian T-80 ?

@Irondome and 185.155.162.50: Excuse me for the quick change. Syrian is not known to have had any T-80. There is no photo, nor any delivery report. See [1] : "Following the turn of the century Syria sought to further enhance its armored forces by acquiring the T-80 from Russia, but there were no confirmed reports of actual deliveries". For Syrian amour, see [2]. No T-80 is mentionned. The error of military-today.com may have come from the Syrian T-82, local name of T-72A delivered in 1982 [3]. --Le Petit Chat (talk) 09:38, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Le Petit Chat thanks for responding. I find the globalsecurity report convincing, as I think it is a WP:RS. I am inclined to accept that there has been a mis-identification of type someone in the reporting. I would say that unless anyone else has evidence that none of us are aware of, and presents it in the next 24 hours max, we should revert back to your version. Thanks, Irondome (talk) 13:15, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

NATO estimate (1980s)

NATO realized that new Soviet tanks could reach the Atlantic within two weeks... - So what ? A fairly comprehensible, not that clear, somewhat awkward statement. What made such an impression on NATO that western Military liaison missions' teams were extremely keen to get nearer information about that wonder beast named T-80 ? --129.187.244.19 (talk) 11:45, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

About Comparable versions...

Isn't Abrams, Leopard, Ariete better than T 80 and more comparable to T 90? Al Khalid, AMX and Chinese T 96 are actually comparable. SReader21 (talk) 00:25, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

And of course Challenger 2 also is more comparable to T 90, Challenger 1 is fine. SReader21 (talk) 00:26, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

The T-80 is more than comparable to the M1 abrams and Leopard 2, they were less than 5 years apart, and the T-80B was more than capable of providing a huge threat to them, the T-80B possessed a superior range, accuracy and horsepower to ton ratio compared to early model abrams tanks (M1, M1IP)

Also the Al khalid is just a modernized chieftain how is it comparable to the T-80? And isn't the Al Khalid niche to the point of making a a shit comparison? It's an export variant that ended up only being used by one country in an amount of less than 300. And the AMX-30? Don't make me laugh, that thing is a mere 5 years older than the T-62 and M60 how is it a comparison with a 3rd gen MBT

And the T-90? It came out in the 90s it was 10 years older than the earlies T-80s and abramses D1d2d3d29 (talk) 16:35, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

T80U didn't have thermal imaging system.

There's an error stating that T80U has thermal imaging system when it actually doesn't. 37.173.120.9 (talk) 08:12, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Second photo on the page.

In answer to the questioning of the provenance of the second photo, this appears in Zaloga's "T-80 Standard Tank" and is credited thus:

"Mystery tank. This is the first widely-distributed photo of a new tank that NATO called SMT1983/1 (Soviet Medium Tank). This T-80B of the 40th Guards Tank Regiment, 11th Guards Tank Division, was taken by a member of the French Military Liaison Mission in Germany in December 1984 near the Konigsbruck PMA (Permanent Restricted Area) (US DoD)." LoatesyJnr (talk) 13:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

The T-80 was used by the Russian armed forces during the Tajikistan civil war

I recently found this documentary on the war and in some footage what appears to be a T-80 is visible, for example at 2:29:02, but at some other points in the video too: Период распада. Война в Таджикистане. - YouTube

So participation in it should be added to the list of conflicts it took part in and the operational history section D1d2d3d29 (talk) 16:37, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

I would have added it myself but i found no sources mentioning the T-80 being used specifically, every article on the battle for Turg height i found just mentioned "tanks" without specifying the type, so the only source is archival footage and i don't know how that's supposed to be cited D1d2d3d29 (talk) 16:40, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

T-80 in Egyptian service

(Reference: Operators section). Egypt does not operate the T-80 in any variant. IISS The Military Balance 2024 & 2023 does not report any, SIPRI Arms Transfer Database reports none either, and to my knowledge there are no photos or videos of T-80's in service with the Egyptian Army or any in Egyptian colour schemes or markings. Likely the Egyptians trialed the T-80 back in the 90's and instead chose the M1A1 Abrams. The T-80's were likely returned to seller and have not been seen in Egypt since. The only sources for this claim are dubious websites like ArmyRecognition, and they in turn have no sources. It is not "Disputed" whether Egypt uses the T-80. They simply don't, and it is not needed to list them in this article. I would like to remove their mention from the Operator section. Anyone disagree? Anyone have any substantive sources? TheSerendipitist (talk) 03:59, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Likewise, China does not operate the T-80. It is possible they imported some for testing and technology transfer, but even that is unsubstantiated. What we can say right now is that China does not operate the T-80. IISS TMB 2024 does not report it (neither do any previous editions I have read), SIPRI and UNODA Arms Transfer Database's do not record any mention of them receiving T-80's, and I am likewise unaware of any photographic evidence that they use them. If as this article suggests China imported some for testing and evaluation then they should be shifted into that category and not listed as "Disputed". TheSerendipitist (talk) 05:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)